The Road to Your Name Podcast

rtyn-lacey
===

[00:00:00] Greetings, everyone. Welcome to our Ohate Ne Gasuna: The Road to Your Name podcast, focusing on Haudenosaunee cultural topics recorded on Haudenosaunee territory. Our podcasts are produced by Aboriginal Legal Services with the technical assistance of Humble Man Recording. My name is Lisa Vinevery from the Mohawk Nation and the Wolf Clan.

I'm the coordinator of the Ohate Ne Gasuna: Road to Your Name program and the host of this podcast. Welcome to the Ohate Ne Gasuna: Road to Your Name podcast series. If you would like to learn more about our organization, Aboriginal Legal Services, and the programs and services we provide, [00:01:00] please visit us at our new website at www.aboriginallegal.ca.

And if you feel inclined and would like to make a donation, you can click on the word Donate located on the bottom of the page of our newly updated website. You can also visit us on Facebook at Aboriginal Legal Services Toronto, Canada. This episode was recorded by telephone.

Welcome to the Ohate Negasana Road to Your Name podcast. Today in the studio we have a special guest, a musical guest, an artist, a creative person by the name of Lacey Hill. Welcome, Lacey, to the podcast.

Thank you so much for having me here.

Oh, [00:02:00] I'm so glad you're here. It's just good to get near people who are creative, I feel.

You can feel the creative energy. And we are really all creative beings, aren't we?

Absolutely.

Yeah. And you've been creative for a very long time. How did you get into, first of all, music, 'cause you're creative in many other ways, but musically, how did you get into writing songs? You're a great singer-songwriter, and singing songs and playing songs.

Oh. That's a big one, huh? I guess I'll start when I was, like, younger. My first album, like CD, that I ever got was Phantom of the Opera. So here I was, six, seven, eight, singing opera at that age on the res. You know, not many kids are doing that. And I loved it. I loved that album. In fact, I wore it out. We had to get another one.

And I [00:03:00] think that listening to different, I don't know, voices and tones and vibrations is, like, what we are here to do as humans. And so it's always been there as a kid, and I've always been, like, into watching movies and how that, how they perspire over the course of the hour that you watch it. Or I remember knowing Beauty and the Beast word for word, that whole movie.

Just little things like that as a kid. You mimic and you listen and you hear these different things, and then you try things with your own self. I remember being really young and being able to whistle really loud. Like, people were like, "What are you doing? How do you do that?" And I couldn't even show them.

I just had to do it. And I feel as an adult I'm doing that too. Like, I can't say... I can't tell people to go and do things, but I have to be the example myself and just go [00:04:00] do it, and hope that people are watching, 'cause they always are, and it's watch me then. As a young person, being outgoing and a lot of people aren't like that or don't like that.

In our community, I'm sure you've experienced bullying, or maybe you were a bully. I know I was all the things. But that's a real big thing on the reserve, and that happened a lot to a lot of people that I know. Like, just treating each other like crap. So that kinda stifled my- ideas of ever being in a spotlight at all 'cause you didn't wanna shine a little brighter 'cause they just, it's crabs in a bucket.

You're trying to reach over that bucket and heck no, heck no, you get back here, you know, and it's all over again. And I think that's like a colonial thing that's happened to us historically throughout the years. But I think that [00:05:00] with ultimate trauma and tragedy is the other side of that which is healing at a quantum level.

And I'll get into that in a second, but I wanted to just paint a picture that as a young woman Shining the way that we're supposed to and being dulled by some people in the community, some peers, some older people even, and it's men. That's-- I had to take a long time, like, to figure what that is out, and I did.

And so in high school, I really loved to sing, but I was getting made fun of or, "Oh, heck, you think you're so good?" Or, "Sing this then. If you're so good, prove it," you know? And, and it's like, "Sing. Oh, you should sing this. You s- you sound like her. You sound like this. You sound like that." Everybody else. "You sound like everyone else."[00:06:00]

And I was like, "But I just wanna sound like me." And so in high school, I loved music so much, but I didn't wanna sing, and so I had to figure something out, and the trumpet is what my solution was. So I took jazz trumpet in high school to hide my voice, and I, I just loved music so much. I had to be a part of it, but was afraid of it just as equally because of what people would say and how insecure I was about it.

And so after, after that, I-- The music teacher overheard me sing somewhere, and then was like, "Oh my God, you can sing?" Like, all those times shocked, you know? And I give her a hard time. I give her a real hard time in high school. I did eventually, as an adult, apologize to her for being such a jerk, but it was our relationship [00:07:00] at the time, and I was a kid going through all the emotions as a Indigenous woman off the reserve, going to school, and all the responsibilities that takes.

Plus, I was the oldest of four, and home life, family life wasn't top-notch, the best, all good, shiny, you know, and bright. So she heard me sing, and we end up doing, like, a theater production, like a musical, as our mark for OAC drama theater class. And so we put on this, like, best of Broadway show at, uh, Hagersville High School and end up singing, and I had huge fright of that, stage fright, and I had to work through that.

I had to figure that out and learn and manage emotions in a different way than what I was doing. And So for graduation, I ended up singing for my graduating class [00:08:00] and that was my stan- first standing ovation in performance. And I actually got Principal's Award for graduating too 'cause I started peer tutor programs and PAT, the Positive Attendance Team, where we encouraged indigenous kids to come to school and I would go out in the community and get vouchers or thing- like, like little prizes for them, the people, the kids that came to school.

And we were all the same age, so I was like... But it was something that was in, in getting kids to come to school and be together and be rewarded that way 'cause I just found that it was the opposite of what was going on. So I was really trying to change then. I don't know if they still have it, I doubt it, but I moved on to college in which, um, I was a peer tutor there.

And this was a pivoting point of my guitar playing. I was a peer tutor in like English and there [00:09:00] was this one guy, he was like a peer tutor in classical music, so I was always busy working for my money and he was just over there just chilling on the couch. I was like, "What do you teach?" Like, "What are you peer tutoring?"

He's like, "Classical guitar." And I was like, "No one's taking that." So I quit my peer tutoring job and I got a guitar and I made him work for his money. And so that's how I learned how to play guitar, was actually in spite of him working and not working because I w- I had a line-up of people sometimes and I had to work for that peer tutoring money.

And then there's him just collecting. So I like put him to work. I put a... I couldn't take it no more. And it's interesting when you're pushed in the universe to do something and then it works out to your benefit. I was lucky. I learned a lot of the chords that I play today from him. And I, I was writing and stuff, but that's [00:10:00] when I started to really like get involved in music.

I got backup singer in a band called, at the time, The Breeze Band. They're The Healers now, but they're like one of the most played like buck and doe kind of band. So Friday, Saturday, Sunday was always busy 'cause everybody's having their buck and does. It's their wedding or whatever, playing late at night.

So I, I played f- with them for five years as a backup singer, singing covers. And I was always encouraging them to, to do the original stuff. And they put out an original album, which was awesome. It got nominated for like Best Blues or something like that in Winnipeg one year, one summer, and we drove there And when we got there I was so excited.

I, I remember being like, "Oh my God, this is, this is so [00:11:00] cool, this life." And I got there and I seen Lila Gilday singing up on stage and I was like there was something in me that was like, "I can frigging do that. I'm gonna do that And I needed to see that. And, uh, it's interesting how the universe puts these things in your path.

I didn't really say that out loud, but I felt it on the inside. And I completed college. I was female athlete of the year. I love fastball.

Mm-hmm.

And I'm a pitcher, and I got a really awesome bat. And, um, I just, I was able to succeed in college, and then I was like, "Oh, yeah, I'm a educated lady now. I'm a child and youth worker."

Mm-hmm. 'Cause I, I knew that as a youth, I woulda really loved to have [00:12:00] somebody be looking out for me. I'm like, "I'm gonna be that, too. I'm gonna..." So here I am, the ultimate auntie- Mm-hmm ... looking out for people. When I see something, I say something. Mm-hmm. Some people don't like that. Mm-hmm. But I can't help it.

Like, how are we supposed to grow? How are we supposed to navigate life if you don't have some help when we might be doing something wrong? Mm-hmm. It takes a community. And so I was like, "All right. I've been doing this school thing for a while. I'm a educated lady. I'm gonna go and work." Mm-hmm. So you think I get, like, a child and youth job?

No. I went to BC, and I got a job as maintenance crew on a golf course, and I learned how to play golf.

Okay.

And I was maintenance there. And you know what? Getting up at that hour every day, and I was the early crew, so it's 4:00 AM. Mm-hmm. In the mountains and watching that sunrise all the time, it does something to you.

It's really [00:13:00] amazing the feelings that you get. I can take myself there right now and see those types of images that are in me now. But I learned how to play golf, though, too, and I really love that sport.

Mm-hmm.

And I still play today. And, and I still... That's... I love that. If singing don't work out, I'm coming a, becoming a professional golfer.

Oh, yeah. Anywho, I did that for a year, and I came back home, and there was actually a job. I did a lot of song, singing, songwriting out there. A l- I did a lot of bonding with my guitar when I was away. I came back. I applied for the job as a Aboriginal indigenous recruiter for Mohawk College 'cause that's the college that I went to, and I did all these things.

I... So I had these accolades while I was there, so I was like, "Man, I'm, this would be a great job. I, and it's working with kids. This is perfect. I love this. This is so good." So I got the job. Mm-hmm. I applied for it. I got it. And, um- They're very [00:14:00] colonial, the post-secondary institutions. And you would think that a college called Mohawk College would have Mohawk language

Yeah

And so I ruffled feathers because I was always pushing for those types of things.

Honor the name

Mm-hmm

Do the work. And so I was already a brown page in a white book and people don't like that, right? So I was always struggling in that colonial system as a worker and they would be like, "Oh, take this PowerPoint to all the reses and tell them about our school and try to get them to get here."

Well, offer some good things then. Right Like, I'm here. I'm... I, I wanna do that. Yeah, okay. Well, make it easy for me to sell the school

Mm-hmm

And I'm not gonna do that PowerPoint. I'm gonna take my guitar in there and I'm gonna play, and I'm gonna sing, and I'm gonna connect with the kids, and I'm gonna tell them, "Hey, follow your [00:15:00] dreams," and whatever that is.

And if the college has it, "Hey, maybe that's a possibility. If it doesn't, here's other colleges that do"

Mm-hmm

So it wasn't like, "Oh yeah, yeah, come here. Come here." No. "Hey, do something. Follow your dreams in something"

Mm-hmm

That's the path. And look, I'm doing this now. It's not a stadium of a billion people, but it's you, and you still matter Yeah And here we are.

We're connecting in a deeper level. You wanna watch this PowerPoint? I'll put it on rotation while I sing to you in real life, in real form, and feeling real feelings and inspiring you, not motivating you Mm-hmm Motivation and inspiration are two different things. So I did that for about 10 years, eight years, yeah, and in, in that time, I moved off the res At this point, singing, I had a full-time job.

Singing was like on the side. Mm-hmm. And singing was a singing for the kids.

[00:16:00] Mm-hmm.

You know? And connecting that way. That was where I started to write more and, and focus more on those types of things, and connecting with them in that way through creativity.

Mm-hmm.

And, and I said, "This is one way of following your dreams.

There's so many ways of following your dreams." Like, the number 10, that's why the number 10's so special, 'cause there's like million ways that you can get to number 10, and 10 is success. Mm-hmm. That's what success is related to. The number 10 is success.

Mm-hmm.

And there's so many ways of getting there.

Just like life, there's so many ways in us knowing how to get to success and what success looks like. But that 10, there's so many ways to get to 10. Let's figure out a way. Let's figure out what that looks like. Let's visualize that. Let's plant those seeds in these kids. What does that look like? What do you g- what's your dreams?

Mm-hmm.

I don't care what you... If you go to school. But what do you... What's your [00:17:00] gift? Yeah. That's what I wanna know.

Mm-hmm.

And if you could tell me your gift, I can tell you maybe certain places to check out to inspire that gift, to create that gift, to bring energy to that gift and honor it. Mm-hmm. Because I'm doing that myself.

I'm honoring my gift, and you can't tell somebody to go honor their gift if you're not. You can't tell somebody to go and do something if you're not. Mm-hmm. And I think that's where the jealousy comes from, is because people don't know how to express. They see something in you that they see in them that they're neglecting.

And so it's actually a projection of emotion of themselves.

Mm-hmm.

The way that, that people bring people down, it's their own heart that's... It's at a disease, right? That's where disease comes in, and the emotion that's connected to that, 'cause it's all, like, vibrations, right? [00:18:00] And that's what we're here to learn, and that's actually my whole album volumes.

I'm at volume three right now, and it's all 528, and 528 is the frequency of love.

Mm-hmm.

So when I was in that job, I became very unhappy with the politics. Like, it was tearing me up inside 'cause I couldn't believe how oppressive it was, and I couldn't believe how much I was treated so poorly and- Anyways, my partner, she was a chiropractic doctor, so we were gonna start our own, um, doctor's office on the reserve to help.

And so we were getting ready to do that, but she fell sick with oral cancer, and within the seven months, she passed.

Mm.

Yeah[00:19:00]

As a 32-year-old young woman losing a loved one like that

It really sets the tone in a different life

Mm-hmm '

cause I had to go through some stuff with her, and I seen some things that I don't think that I could ever undo in my head.

Yeah.

And no one should ever go through that or feel that or see that, but we did, and she passed the day, the month that she was born.

And there was three summers. I lost my grandma. The next summer I lost my brother, and then the next summer after that I lost her. Mm-hmm. And it really opened my eyes to be [00:20:00] like, "All right, we only have so much time here. We only have so much time here. What are we gonna do with it?"

How can I take this and transform it into something good? Transform it into love.

Yeah.

And, and I had to figure that out. So anyways, like I quit my job and I said, "All right. Life's way too short and I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this, and there's two things that I want." And I said, "I'm not gonna sing covers 'cause I've done that.

I've done that." Yeah. "And I'm not gonna sing in bars until 2:00 AM."

Yeah. "

I'm not gonna do it. These are the two thing. Whatever that looks like, I don't know." Mm-hmm. "But these are the things that I, I w- I'm putting into place as standards in my practice." [00:21:00]

Yeah.

In honoring my partner, I released an album, and it was an album Five to Eight Volume Two, and it's all the songs that I've written for her in our relationship and when she got sick and when she passed and, and it's like a pretty grieving album.

So if you're like hurting, that will help. It helped me.

Yeah.

And that's, that's... I, I still listen to that and I'm like, "Wow, man. Like where did that come from?" Like, and it came from all those times of beauty and love. And so I'm very thankful even though that was an awful experience, and I don't wish that upon anyone, but we grow from that, from our tragedies, through our hurts and our struggles.

We have to find that light in there somehow, or else w- what are we here for? So those were [00:22:00] the standards that I had with that. Now I'm on volume three, and I talked about volume two, and I didn't talk about volume one, which I think is very important because volume one was in 2013 and I was living in Brantford, and I was literally down the street from the Woodland Cultural Center, the Mush Hole.

Yeah. And I actually bought the old mayor's house, the old mayor of Brantford, their house, and- I'm like, "Number one, why is it just down the street from here?" I don't know. It was just super, super weird, super eerie feeling. I had to bring people in to do, like, real good clean out the house and everything like that.

And there was this one night where Woodland Cultural Centre had this, like, open mic featured artist night there.

Yeah.

And I'm at my house literally [00:23:00] down the street, and I know this is happening, and I'm like, "Just go. Go and sing. It's not a bar, so you're good. And you'll sing your own so- songs, so it's open mic.

It's perfect. It's what you need. Go." And then another side of me was like, "Nah," "You're good here. Just..." "No, come on. We gotta go do that." 'Cause, yeah, I was back and forth in my head for, like, most of the day 'cause I knew it was coming, like, that night. And then finally, you know, in the afternoon, one voice was like, "Just practice and see how you feel.

Just practice and see if you can... you wanna go and share. Just sing." And through that practicing and through that singing, through that time that it takes to practice, I gained the confidence to go and do that. And so I get there, and I go [00:24:00] up to the sheet that has open mic, and it's got a whole sheet, and I'm like, I'm the only one on that sheet.

And I'm like, "Oh, man. Nobody else?" So I get up there, and I sing two songs, and then they're like, "Sing another one." So I sang another one. And I guess they, like, put their featured artist on a CD, and then they sell it in the store there. And I wasn't a featured artist, but they asked me if my songs could go on that album, and then they booked me for next year-

Mm

after that. And they're like, "You're so good. Like, how come you're not doing this?" Like, I am like, "I am doing it, though. I'm here. I'm doing it." And they're like, "Have you thought about recording?" I'm like, "Mm, haven't gotten that far yet, but I do have songs. I do have stuff that I could." So the Woodland Cultural Centre, before it was renovated, they had a studio in the second floor, and it was in the little girl's room.

[00:25:00] Mm-hmm.

And a lot of the stuff was still in there too still, so it was, "What is this space? I know what it was before." But what is it now? It's like a different space, but it's still the same and, and you can feel it.

Yeah.

And I recorded my whole first album in that residential school in the little girls' room.

And the feelings that I had and the things that came through, and if you listen to that album Medicine Bag, it's acapella because that came through in the stairwell, and it's a protection song. And I feel like it's direct from that source, from those kids, from those girls, from their, like, protecting is, is coming through.

So, like, being a conduit in that space and using that energy of all the things that were awful there-

Yeah ...

I feel like that was [00:26:00] maybe one good thing that came out of there. Mm. It was the, those songs.

Mm-hmm.

And how if vibrationally if you look at the spectrum- of vibration and emotion the residential school was successful because they shamed the kids And shame is the lowest vibration to then is death.

That's the lowest vibration. So shame is right there, and they knew it, and that's a low vibe. And so now with what I know is that there's equal things about that, right? So if we look at that shame, and you look at the things that I'm trying to do, it's on the other spectrum, and it's 528 of love, and that's a way higher frequency.

[00:27:00] Mm-hmm.

So there's a, there's gotta be a balance somewhere.

Yeah.

You hear what I'm saying? Even though that stuff is so awful- Mm-hmm ... somewhere, somehow there's good and that's equal.

Mm-hmm.

Whatever that is, wherever that is, I don't know, but I feel like that album for me is on the positive side of what came out of that-

Mm-hmm

experience.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, it's really, it's a small world because I actually worked right next door to the, the girls' dormitory- Yeah ... in an office there.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, and I was there when David had the studio. And- David

Moses.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah,

the Damn studio.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's where you recorded your first album.

And that was where I recorded my first album. Mm-hmm. Yep.

And I could... When I worked there, I could definitely feel what went on there before.

Yeah, I think that will never go away. [00:28:00]

Mm-hmm.

And I, I think that's just a part of what that, the recognizing of it is, and I think that's why they're preserving the building.

Yeah.

Because even though those feelings are uncomfortable when we're there, but that those uncomfortable feelings aren't always bad for us to feel. It's a reminder. It's a, it's a thing that we have to honor, too, that discomfort- Yeah ... and what that makes me feel and what I have to do here right now. Mm-hmm.

It makes you, it pushes you to do something. It pushes you. That uncomfortability pushes you or pulls you. It all depends on how your perception is of that.

Yeah.

Right? Anyways, that's volume one. Volume two was the loss of my partner.

Mm-hmm.

And quitting my job and releasing that into the world as a chapter that I'm here, I'm doing this.

And all this [00:29:00] time when people were... There was an understanding that I came to, and I started using the law of attraction, the law, the laws of the universe, and practicing in that. And I've used the word practicing a lot because- You can't just try something and be good. Yeah, you might be able to but you gotta practice at it.

You gotta take some time to get to know it, like really get to know the cricks and crannies-

Mm-hmm ...

of that gift, whether it's meditating on that or... One of the things that I've done in my life that's been so helpful is visualization, and this has helped me with my stage fright, too, as a young person, and I even use some of the things to manage that even now, is, uh, this understanding and this practice of visualization.

So if I get to a big place [00:30:00] and it's a bigger venue or whatever, like I try to do my homework before. There's pictures on the webs of all the venues. You can go and Google it and look at it, and you visualize people in them seats, people that you know, people you don't know, whatever you want. Mm-hmm. Big Bird, I don't care.

Mm-hmm.

But those seats are full, and you're up on that stage. Mm-hmm. So sometimes I'll have a mic set up, like for real, and I'll just sit there like this with that image to look at it and to... and I'll practice.

Mm-hmm.

Because we have to visualize ourselves there. We have to get those things because when we get there, we can't be overwhelmed with emotion to...

and then y- you can't even sing- Mm-hmm ... 'cause you're crying 'cause it's so beautiful. Mm-hmm. You know? Like, it's like, no, you have to, you have to manage your emotions to be able to deliver. You have a task. You have a job, professionalism. As a Native woman, it seems like we have to work [00:31:00] five times harder than everybody else.

Mm-hmm.

And it's only... I'm exhausted. At the same time, being this example, trying to do it all all the time, it's heavy. But that's what our people know is the good heart and a good mind, that ain't easy. You could be a jerk. That's easy. That's easy.

Yeah.

And but that's not my peace. My peace is here and knowing that I'm trying my best every day.

Making sure that I'm up and doing what I need to do and honoring my gifts-

Mm-hmm ...

and encouraging others to f- do that too by being the example.

Mm-hmm.

When I was younger, people would be like, "Oh, hey, sing this, sing that," and I always thought that they're, they're like really bugging me. But as I got older, it was just the universe telling me that music was a path.

Mm. Music was a part of my life, and I think we all get those types of things in our lives [00:32:00] where you have this gift and sometimes when people say stuff like that to you, you, you look to be offended, right? You're offended 'cause you're wounded in some way or you gotta heal that up on the inside. I healed up those things and found out that it was them encouraging me and the universe sending them to, to trigger me in that way- Mm

to do that healing, to move forward in that, to, to be like... Music, the music career, I didn't choose it, chose me. I have to do it.

Mm-hmm.

I have to do these things. I have to sing. I have to learn. I have to look out for other people. I have to do these things. Mm. I don't know why, but I, I've, I stopped asking it.

I'm just like, "All right, let's go." Mm-hmm. You present me that opportunity, I'm gonna do my best to make good out of it every time.

Mm-hmm.

And sometimes I see people in the industry [00:33:00] Go up on stage and they're, it's an act. It's a hat that they wear. And then they come off the stage and they're, like, the total opposite of all that.

Mm-hmm. And I can't, sometimes I can't believe it. Sometimes I can't get over it, 'cause I've seen people that I've adored, and then I've met them, and then I'm like, "Oh, no. I can't listen anymore." "I can't even s- I can't even feel that way about them anymore knowing what I know now, and seeing the real of it all."

And here I am trying to be real on there and real here, too. Like, I try so hard to have those the same.

Mm-hmm. '

Cause that's me.

They, they seem be okay with the separation of their two, [00:34:00] um, lives, but you are the same.

If, I try hard to be the same. I think I'm a good person. I don't wanna be anybody else. Mm-hmm.

I'm, this is a spiritual game to me. Yeah. It's not a game of business. When people act like that, it's business. Mm-hmm. And it's a job. This ain't no job for me. It's a spiritual thing, and that's, I've worked hard to do that. I've worked hard to get to that point. And people are like, "Oh, y- you know why you're doing all this?"

Yeah, I worked for it, and you can do that, too. You got gifts, you work for 'em. You honor them. That's a part of it. It's hard work. And then, plus having a good mind on top of that and making decisions like that is hard.

How do you navigate when it's a spiritual, it's a spiritual thing for you, as you say, how do you navigate in a business world, because you're [00:35:00] doing this full time now?

Well, this is another reason why I'm managing myself Mm-hmm ... is because I trust myself to do so and you never know what other people have in the back of their pocket. Sometimes there's good managers and bad managers, just like good employees and bad employees- Mm ... but you gotta find them. Mm-hmm. I want somebody who wants to work for me and I wanna work for them.

It's a partnership and I work with people, I work with a lot of people, but it's who I choose to work with, and I don't have to give up my rights or my whatever to work with them.

Mm-hmm.

I can just be who I am, work on the creations, and they're supportive. "Hey, how's that? Wow, that's nice. I'll pay you for your service."

Mm-hmm. "

Thank you. Let's do it again."

Mm-hmm. "

That sounds nice." But they... Like, I don't work with everybody because some people just have bad attitudes-

Yeah ...

and they [00:36:00] vibe not good, and it's, oh, man, you're gossiping about people. You're... That's low vibes. You're complaining. That's low vibes. You're calling yourself down.

That's low vibes. No, no, that doesn't... No, sorry And sometimes I have to say something, and people don't like that.

So you've walked away from gigs before?

I've walked away from gigs.

Mm-hmm.

I've walked away from gigs. I've canceled gigs when I feel uncomfortable with people who are on that lineup. Mm-hmm. Heck yeah.

Mm-hmm. I ain't scared. Mm-hmm. And Creator's got my back. If that didn't work out, something better is on its way. Good. I'm glad it didn't work out.

Mm-hmm.

Or it worked out in the way that it needed to be.

Mm-hmm.

Either way, I'm so grateful that I'm able to go places and share my music and share stories and- Well-

share my music, and it's not... They're like, "Oh, you, you're Native, right? You're a [00:37:00] Na- you got Native music." Well, yeah, it's, it's still Native music. It's just a different way of expressing.

So let's talk about some of the things you've done lately that you've been involved in. I know when I was trying to get you to come and do a podcast, you were going to Australia, I think.

You went there, and then you came back, and then you went somewhere else. You were, like, gone for a long time.

Yeah, I did a... I was gone from January to June this year- Mm ... for a tour. And as an independent artist, I'm doing the tour managing, so it's, like, building these relationships throughout the globe and a lot of communication back and forth to figure out how this can happen without me paying for all of it.

Mm-hmm. It's, like, a real treat to be able to be asked to go and play. So January, I was in Calgary, and I was working on a play, [00:38:00] a theater play with Theater Calgary, with the National Arts Center, and it's a Kevin Loring production called Little Red Warrior and His Lawyer, and it's frigging phenomenal theater.

And they asked me if I wanted to do stage management, and I said, "Yeah, let's do it." And I've been working with the National Arts Center in stage managing productions for them and learning that side of the Show, which is very beautiful because like I said, everybody has gifts, and not everybody is center stage with that spotlight.

Not everybody wants that.

Mm-hmm.

And but they wanna be in that sound. They wanna be in that set. They wanna be in that lighting. They wanna be in, like, like helping with that. That's where the gifts are. That's where their gifts are.

Mm-hmm.

So in honoring their gift, they wanna do these things, right, a- and make the show all these things, right, for the audience.

So it's like all these levels of [00:39:00] energies coming into the play or the person or the performance, right, that's gonna happen. It takes so much work for that to happen, not just that one person. And so it's so humbling to see everybody working so hard for that show, and I love that. I love that teamwork. I love that leadership that it takes to make sure everybody's on the pa- on the right page, creating a positive atmosphere where everybody's having fun.

Mm-hmm. And that's a beautiful workspace, and it all for that show to be successful and all of that going into the audience and them feeling that certain way.

Mm-hmm.

You know? And I think that's one of the things that will change humanity for the better is theater, art pieces, performances-

Mm-hmm ...

dances, singing, paintings, pottery, beading.

Everything [00:40:00] like that- Mm-hmm ... is there's a connection there and a vibration that is for healing. And quantum healing is a big thing. Quantum physics, I don't... Do you know anything about that?

Yeah, if it's explained in a simplistic way.

So- I

can relate ...

if you Google... Do you know the Nobel Prize?

Mm-hmm.

Okay. So in 2022, last year, quantum, the quantum physics, quantum theory, quantum leaping, quantum Ness got the global, like the Nobel Prize for 2021.

Quantum physics, and it's about energy transfer. And if you can transfer this energy, knowing this energy within yourself, but it then if you do it in a group, or if you do it in a place where it's amplified, [00:41:00] quantum healing is then a thing

Mm-hmm

And that's where there's magic. That's where people get healed on the spot.

That's where people find this clarity or this break of beauty in them. Like, it's... I love that, and it's all vibrating, right? And how we vibrate and resonate within ourselves. So if we're at a low vibe, we gotta work on that, right? We gotta work on that, those things that have hurt us or our anger or our sadness.

We have to tap into those things and work on those things sometimes to move forward in them

Mm-hmm

And by moving forward in them, your vibe changes into something else. So if you Google this stuff, like you can really get into it and really gain your understanding in that. And one person that I really listen to is, um, Dr.

Joe Dispenza. I love listening [00:42:00] to him and the things that he says because I feel like that's a lot of what our people have said all these times, so it's like science catching up to what we've said, and it all comes back to that good heart, good mind

Yeah, it all sounds like indigenous science to me

Yeah, it is.

It's leading into that. But s- like I said, science is finally catching up to the things that we've said all, for so many, so long, so many years Mm-hmm And it's just interesting, and it's a really crazy time right now because the more people that are aware of this, the more the seed is planted for that quantum healing, that understanding is there Mm-hmm And, and I think that's a really exciting thing to look forward to because what is that?

What does that look like? 'Cause there's just so many things right now that I, you know, that aren't so good

Mm-hmm

You know? Like- The, like everything. Like our history. There's some good things in that too, though. [00:43:00] Like there- Like

climate change.

Yeah, like all the things. So it's just-

Yeah ...

it's just where's the balance, and what does that look like?

Where's that good thing? Where's that good stuff that's gonna happen or that is happening, you know? We need to talk about that a lot more, and focus, refocus, and focus and refocus, and do that a billion times, and make sure we're getting on the right page, you know? And the more and more we do that, the more and more we connect as people.

Mm-hmm.

And the more and more we can be tight, and we can then grab other people to gravitate. What are you doing now? Oh, tour. So I did that in January. Mm-hmm. The National Arts Center with, uh, Kevin. And then in- February, I went out to Australia for WorldPride. I sang with them, and then I was also in a three-week, uh, residency, theater residency with [00:44:00] Moogahlin Performing Arts.

And I was also in the festival that they call Baianijinunu Festival, and there's this river in Brewarrina, which is, like, inlet of Australia. It's nine hours, 10 hours from Sydney going northwest, so it's, like, in, on the cusp of the Australian desert right there. And there's this river there, and there... It's, like, a small, super small town.

It's really crazy. But they're busy all the time with all these scientists coming in and out 'cause they're always studying that river. Mm-hmm. And they say that the first man-made structure in that river is the fishing traps. Oh. Those fishing traps are in the river, and they date back to 150,000 years, 180,000 years ago.

They're saying that these fishing traps, these scientists are coming to do that to know that that's the first man-made structure, even past the pyramids. Oh. So [00:45:00] they're saying, like, all this stuff. It, it's busy. It's a busy town, and it's a one-store-closes-at-6:00 PM store. When the lights go... When the sun goes down, the lights are out, you know, kinda town.

It's really crazy. I was there for, like, a full month and a half. Like, I w- And then I went to Brisbane, and I was working with my friend Jessii Lloyd, who I sing and, and first met in Munda Montreal when my first showcase there as a performer. I was sandwiched in between Amanda Reyume and William Prince, and I met Jessii there.

And, uh, we've been friends ever since. So she's my Australian friend from Torres Straits area of the islands. And before the COVID hit, I was supposed to open up for her Canadian tour, and she's got 500 mission songs. And mission songs, their mission is how they call their [00:46:00] reservations over there.

Oh.

We call 'em reserves over here.

They call 'em missions over there. Mm-hmm. And we have, like, a shorthand book because we have the same colonizer, so we were tight right off the bat. We knew we had real dark humor. You know, we had our traumas. W- We knew where they came from, right? Mm-hmm. So we bonded-

Mm-hmm ...

in that. And I've been to Australia a couple times and doing a show, stage managing a show, and every time we were close, she'd come out and watch and meet, and that's really nice when you're that far away from home.

And you see a familiar face. So it's nice. So I got to hang out with her and her family, and we're writing. And we're like, "Oh, maybe we can get a couple songs," but then I get all these ideas and so now we're doing a children's album And the children's album is based on relationships, global relationships and history so there's things that we have similar in how [00:47:00] we talk and what there is.

We have a song saying hello in our language. Just how different languages, but how they're the same, too. There's still that commonality in there. So it's about showing kids that we have this connection throughout the world, showing them history, real history from a indigenous woman perspective Mm-hmm ... but also letting them know that they're not alone Mm-hmm

and that there's connections that can be made and that these are our siblings as well- Mm-hmm ... at a global level.

Mm-hmm.

And it's, I'm working on that currently and I would like to put it in a production Mm-hmm ... um, like a theater production, like even 3D because there's some scary parts in there and, like, I really wanna scare the kids really.

So- I want that, you know, 'cause they'll remember that.

Oh, yeah.

You know Monsters, Inc.? Have you ever watched that?

Well, I don't watch scary things.

That's not a scary thing. It's a cartoon.

Oh.

It's Monsters, Inc., so the monsters go in there to scare the kids at [00:48:00] nighttime- Oh ... to, to energize- Oh ... their city at night.

Oh, yeah.

But at the end of the movie, the monsters find out if they make them laugh, it's 10 times better.

Oh,

yeah. So they go in not scaring them, but making them laugh. Uh-huh. Well, that's what that needs to happen. Mm-hmm. That switch needs to happen. That's kind of like how that, I want that to come out in the production.

So there's a lot of ideas with that and a lot of things that I need to do with that, and I'm so grateful for internet. We can still connect, and we can still work even at a separate distance. Uh-huh. Um, and then I came back to Brie and I spent some more time there with the community and just talking to their elders and stuff like that, just the crazy stories that they have and just how much they relate to us, too.

And then I came home. I went to Ottawa, and I did another round of Little Red at the National Arts Center. Mm-hmm. And then I came back home. I've pretty much taken the summer off 'cause that was a lot, being away, [00:49:00] being that far away. So and but then I had to go back there to New Zealand for Kia Mau Festival, which is an indigenous theater festival, music, everything in New Zealand- Mm-hmm

Wellington. And then we were there for a week, and then went to go over to Melbourne for RISING. And RISING is like a bigger, open, um, Australia market, and I was actually featured at the meat market. So I was like really like, "Oh, the meat market. Oh my, can't wait." I just brought money 'cause you know the market just takes cash.

Mm-hmm. So I'm like thinking it's a wicked market, and it's like totally renovated in this bougie place. It's like- Yeah ... totally not a meat market that you think. And the acoustics in there were just so beautiful. Like, I took the longest soundcheck just because it, I, it, I loved it so much. And they're, after I was done my soundcheck, they're like, "Wow, that was like, that was so not a [00:50:00] soundcheck," you know?

I was like, "I know. It's a performance." But this is the sound that it is, the resonance, the vibration in, in that place, and how old it was, and where it was, and what I was doing, and the reason why I was there. Those things all align somehow- Mm-hmm ... somewhere in, in our futures, and it's up to us to be able to be aware of those things.

Mm-hmm. And to recognize those things and take a chance in yourself to believe in you.

Mm-hmm. '

Cause a lot of people have like real bad thoughts about themselves. It's like, man, you gotta work through that. Go in the mirror right now and tell yourself 10 times- ... I love you. I did that exercise. The first time I did it, I broke down crying.

Mm-hmm. I, I totally was like, "Oh my God." And now I'm able to do it. But that's a thing that I think people should really go look at yourself and tell you that you love yourself.

Mm-hmm.

Do it. See how you feel. See if anything... Check in.

Mm-hmm.

That m- if [00:51:00] that sounds stupid, that means you need to do it.

Mm-hmm.

If that sounds too crazy, that means you need to do it.

Mm-hmm. 'Cause I guarantee there'll be something, some sort of emotion comes up.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it's a really wicked self-reflecting, self... Like, it's a really good reference to check in with yourself to see where you are.

Mm-hmm.

And it's real simple.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. But it's not at the same time. If there, if you're looking for that, if you're looking for that inner work, if you're looking for an, a little exercise to do for yourself, do that.

Mm-hmm.

Try that. See how that feels. Um.

Okay.

Yeah. The, these are things that are, like I said, uncomfortability will make you grow in certain ways. Mm-hmm. And when I got into music, that was one of the things that I knew. I knew that I was gonna be uncomfortable. And one of the things that I'm uncomfortable with is singing in competitions, 'cause how can you be the judge of somebody's voice?

We're all so [00:52:00] different with so many uniques. Who or how are you... How could that be? It's no competition. But- I joined a competition, a singing competition, 'cause I knew I had to be uncomfortable in a way that I was gonna learn. Mm-hmm. And my... I put myself in that position. I knew I was gonna be uncomfortable.

I knew I had to fight through those nerves. I knew I had to perform at the best capacity that I could at the competition, and I can be competitive. Mm-hmm. So the first thing I was like, "I'm competitive with myself, and my goal is to sing my original pieces throughout this whole competition."

Mm-hmm.

And I did.

There was, like, 1,000 applicants, and I got top 10. And my coach even said, "Lace, you should've won that." Like-

Mm-hmm ...

there was no doubt. But with politics and stuff, the politics won. I learned these things. I learned them. I wasn't there to win. I was there to feel uncomfortable and to work through that, and to get my songs out there, and to make [00:53:00] connections with the people that knew more than me.

Mm-hmm.

To learn, and I still talk to my coach now. And actually, it's funny how putting yourself in these situations lead to other things, and I'm gonna h- tell you how it led to certain things in my life that are still affecting me now.

Mm-hmm.

And this was years ago. Blair Packham, he was in the Jitters in the '80s.

He still plays in Toronto, but he was my coach.

Okay.

He's also with the Singer, Singer Association of Canada. He puts on these rounds, these song rounds, and you go and share a song. He's like, "Lace, do you wanna come and do this round?" And I'm like, "Okay, I've never done one before." And it was at the Royal Conservatory of Music- Okay

which is one of the most prestigious music schools in Canada. And I didn't even know that until I I got there, and I was, like, reading all the things, and I was like, "Oh, my God." Like, how did I get here? Imposter syndrome, right? Like, what a f- [00:54:00] what the hell am I? I'm just this rez girl, and here I am. And you know who was on the lineup?

It was him, Sean Jones from Casa Loma, and he's done, like, commercials and stuff. Like, he's famous. And then there's, uh, Lawrence Gowen, who is also quite famous. He is with the Sticks. Mm-hmm. And he's still performing and playing with Sticks, and doing his Lawrence Gowen on a solo basis too, and his shows are packed even till today.

It's so funny. Mm-hmm. Anyways, so and then there's me, and I never graduated from there. These are alumni. They graduated from this school. Here I am doing this thing, and Lawrence... They... We're still all friends to this day. I talk to them. And I was supposed to perform at Casa Loma with Sean Jones this summer, but I fell sick, so I couldn't do it.

Lawrence, he was like, "Call me Larry." And I'm like, "Okay, Larry." "Hey, you got a great sound," blah, blah, blah. "If you need any help, let me know. Also, my son is a drummer." And I'm like, "Okay." So- [00:55:00] I was like, "All right, let's see, let's see." Couple years later, I'm recording this album, right? I'm writing the songs for this one, and, uh, man, I'm gonna connect with Larry to see if his boy wants to play on my album, 'cause I think that's pretty cool, and he's good.

So he's like, "Yeah, yeah, come pick me up." He's in town. We bring him down here, bring him down to the res for the first time ever in his whole life, and we're hanging out and we're recording and all this stuff. And now he records often for some projects that we do down here. So it's really cool how those connections lead to other connections, lead to forever friendships even, and more work.

Mm-hmm. So then when he brought me into the Royal Conservatory, Mirvan was there, and he's like the artistic director of the Royal Conservatory, and he goes, "Oh, hey Lacey, you wanna come and sing after that gig? You wanna come and sing here in, in [00:56:00] the post-show for Buffy's show?" So she was in the Corner Hall, and then after her show, I sang the post-show in the lobby, which still is so beautiful and sounds so beautiful.

So it was so much fun. I got to meet Buffy and do all that, that, those things. And then from there he asked me, "You wanna open up for Susan Aglukark in the Corner Hall?" And I'm like, "Oh my goodness." So the day comes, and this is the first time my dad has ac- actually ever come to see me perform. Mm-hmm. And I'm so glad that he did because we got...

We nailed that performance, and we got two standing ovations in the Corner Hall- Ooh ... opening up for Susan Aglukark, and that was really special 'cause some family members that were there are no longer with us.

Mm-hmm.

And to have that memory of there with them, sharing that and experiencing that with them, I knew it's definitely a highlight in my performance career.

Mm-hmm. And I'm mentioning this stuff because I was just there this weekend- Mm-hmm ... [00:57:00] again, playing for the post-show for all the artists that were doing the Truth and Reconciliation event.

Oh, yeah.

And, uh, coming together in such a way that's just, to take up that kind of space in such a colonial construct is- Mm-hmm

like so important. It's not just, "Oh yeah, you're just going to sing." No, you're going to do many other things too. And it's not just during your performance, it's the whole time that you're there. Mm-hmm. It's the whole time you leave your house.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. So a lot of people are like, "Oh, that looks so fun," and stuff.

And I'm like, "Yeah, it's fun, but it's also a lot of hard work, a lot of preparation- Well, you must make it look easy ... a lot of practicing. Practicing. Okay. It's practicing. You have to practice. You have to practice. Yeah. You have to practice your gift. You have to. Whatever you're doing, whatever it is, do it every day.

Mm-hmm. Do it. Do something.

All this talk about you singing all over the place, I would really [00:58:00] love it if you'd share a song with us on the podcast.

Yeah, sure.

Okay.

All right, so this song got number one on the Indigenous Music Countdown from people voting for it. It's called The Moon, and it's also the debut title of the album, my third album.

So it's 528 Volume Three: The Moon.

Mm.

And like I said, 528, as long as I'm creating music, it's always gonna be 528 volume whatever.

Mm-hmm. '

Cause 528 is the frequency of love, and that's where, where ultimately, that's the goal.

Mm-hmm.

Why can't we talk about that more, you know? So this song comes with a story and, uh, I was in Banff Centre doing this creative thing and, um- And I went through this thing [00:59:00] called, um, imposter syndrome.

I didn't know what it was until I w- was in it. And, um, for two weeks, they... I, I didn't know what they were thinking of me because I wasn't producing anything. And there was a full moon in the mountains, and it was a clear night, and the sky was just full of stars. And, um, I went out to pray And I was just like, "Come on, man.

Like, I'm here. Give it to me. I'm the conduit. I'm believing. I quit my job. I did all these things to, to do this, to be here, and this is how I'm feeling? Like, I need help." So I went into my cabin and I just sat there and I, I, I wrote this [01:00:00] song. This is called The Moon.

Try to fight it. Try to fight with all your might

Night creeps in with the dimness of a lie[01:01:00]

Take your worries, give you some peace of mind[01:02:00] [01:03:00]

is beautiful That's

better.

That's beautiful- Mm-hmm ... songwriting and beautiful singing. And, and, um, it just took me back to that time where you said you went in and you wrote this song. Like, it, did it just, like, did it just, like, come [01:04:00] naturally like that?

Um, sometimes it's just a double-edged sword.

Mm-hmm.

You know what I mean, like, by that?

Is Sometimes it's like you have to choose which hard... It's gonna be hard either way

Mm-hmm.

So it's like you gotta choose what hard it's gonna be for you and It, sometimes it's just navigating, and it, then it's not hard anymore, you know?

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

And songwriting is like a thing that is, you're always learning 'cause not every song's the same, not every song has, like, a structure that's the same.

Or you could do... That's the best thing about music, you could do whatever the hell you want.

Mm-hmm.

And there is no wrong notes.

Mm-hmm.

There's just bad decisions. And same thing r- with life, right? [01:05:00] Mm-hmm. There's no real wrong thing, but, or there's no real wrong notes in life, but there's wrong decisions that we choose- Mm-hmm

you know, like, so it's, it's about what you're gonna do with the hand that you're dealt kinda thing.

Mm-hmm.

And, um, when it comes to singing and songwriting, I, totally, it's all feeling. It's all emotion. It's all, it's all taking that, my experience and putting it into words to be able to express them in a way that people can relate to.

Mm-hmm.

It's that formula. Mm-hmm. And if I'm feeling this, there's gotta be somebody else that's feeling this, or has gotten, gotten these feelings before, you know? Mm-hmm. And if it's that one person out of a crowd of, uh, 300,000, whatever, whatever, how many people are there? Five. If it's one person, that's successful to me.

Mm-hmm.

Because that person now doesn't feel alone, [01:06:00] and that's what music does, it's a connector.

Mm-hmm.

And music is a connector, and I'm a conduit. And The Conduit actually got number four on the Indigenous Music Countdown. Mm. And it comes with a video. And if you watch that video, we did it here, like, in six, like, we did it in six, and it's all, it's all rez, you know?

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. And, um, but it shows, it shows what integrity looks like, and that we're all c- piece, we're all

conduits. Oh, I think I've seen the video. It's with the girl who works at Erlin's. Was it-

Village ...

The Village. Oh, okay.

Yeah.

She works in the restaurant.

Yeah, she's a waitress in the w- restaurant.

Yeah, I did watch that video.

It's really good.

Yeah. And so, like, that's the concept of The Conduit and, and knowing, k- knowing that integrity is wherever you go- Mm ... whether people are watching or not.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

And I [01:07:00] think that's a really important thing that we need to talk about in our community, because when you have integrity, you take responsibility.

Mm-hmm.

When you take responsibility, you take, um, action.

Mm-hmm.

When you take action, you're then becoming who you're meant to be, because you're following that. It's with the integrity. So integrity is a very in, uh- real thing for me. And I know that sometimes I put a lot of expectations on other people, and I get let down a lot.

So I've been learning how to just have expectations for myself and hold myself at that standard, and not disappointing myself.

Mm-hmm.

And not putting those expectations on other people, and actually just putting them onto me. Now, I can do that better. Let me do that again. Let me, you know, I can do that better to my best ability.

Mm-hmm.

So, and then practicing that. 'Cause if you could get good at that, that's why [01:08:00] things, that's why sometimes they're like, "Oh, you make it look easy." It's because I practice it. Mm-hmm. I practice it.

So where can people hear your music?

On all platforms.

Oh, okay. Go on any platform, you can hear your music.

Um, what about buying CDs?

I just buy them, like, off of me personally.

Mm. You have a website?

I do.

Yeah, what's your website? LaceyHillMusic.com.

Lacey Hill Music.

L-A-C-E-Y-H-I-L-L music.com.

Yeah.

Oh, okay. Well, the listeners can go and, um, check you out. Okay. Well, I wanna thank Lacey Hill for being our guest today at Johaa'dinoona Sona: The Road to Your Name podcast.

Thanks for dropping by.

Right on. Thanks for having me. Oh. Appreciate that.

Okay. Ani ki wahi.

Ona.

[01:09:00] Nia:wen. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Ohite Ne Gasihno, The Road to Your Name podcast, which has been produced by Aboriginal Legal Services and hosted by me, Lisa Vinevelvree. There are 10 episodes in this podcast series. Let's meet again on the next episode. If you would like to learn more about our organization, Aboriginal Legal Services, and the programs and services we provide, please visit us at our new website at www.aboriginallegal.ca.

And if you feel inclined and would like to make a donation, you can click on the word Donate located on the bottom of the page of our newly updated website. You can also visit us on Facebook at Aboriginal Legal Services Toronto, Canada. This has been the Ohite Ne Gasihno, The Road to Your Name podcast [01:10:00] series.