The Road to Your Name Podcast

Road To Your Name Podcast
Season 8, Episode 9
Guest: Steve Johnson, owner of Vexed Instruments and Tattoo Artist
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Intro:
Lisa: [00:00:00] Greetings everyone. Welcome to our Yoha:te ne kahsen:na, The Road to Your Name podcast, focusing on Haudenosaunee cultural topics recorded on Haudenosaunee territory.

These podcasts are produced by Aboriginal Legal Services with the technical assistance of True Seed Media. My name is Lisa VanEvery from the Mohawk Nation and the Wolf Clan. I'm the coordinator of the Yoha:ten ne kahsen:na, The Road to Name program, and the host of the podcast.

This is the Yoha:te ne kahsen:na: The Road to Your Name podcast series[00:01:00]

Lisa: On this episode of Yoha:te ne kahsen:na, we are going to be in conversation with Steve Johnson, and Steve is from Vexed Instruments. He's the owner of Vexed Instruments, and we're gonna talk about everything from guitars to tattoos- ... on this episode with Steve. So let's start. welcome to the podcast, Steve.

Steve: Hello.

Lisa: Yeah. Thanks for joining us. so you own, this business called Vexed Instruments. Yes. And tell me about that. What do you do there?

Steve: I, Closer? I, build guitars, and I also, repair them.

Lisa: Oh, wow. [00:02:00] any kind of guitars, you repair?

Steve: I repair, just any guitar that you want. if you want it to play better or whatever.

I've been doing it a lot for people who play on stage or in studios. trying to get it up to that level. So if you just wanna play at home, I can set it up for you, too.

Lisa: So when did you get into this business of building guitars?

Building in- I think it was the summer of 2024 is when it...

So not very long, like maybe a year and a half ago.

Lisa: Yeah.

Steve: I started building a, a few different guitars. First I assembled different parts because I didn't wanna build the parts. I just put them together, see how it worked. And then I learned how to build each individual part.

And then now I do the whole thing.

Lisa: Wow. And what got you interested in, this line of work?

Steve: I always liked guitars. I've played guitar since I was like 12 or 13. [00:03:00] And, yeah, the past c- I think it was a couple years ago now, I tried to get my guitar set up by somebody, but they didn't want to because it wasn't good enough.

So I was like, I gotta learn how to do this." So I learned how to do it myself, fixed up my guitars, and then I just wanted to keep going. So I was like, "What's the next step?" It's building.

Lisa: So are we talking about acoustic guitars or electric guitars or both or?

Steve: electric guitars.

Lisa: Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Steve: Acoustics will, I wanna get into it, but it, I have to make my own equipment to build them. Oh, yeah. and I have to buy more.

Lisa: Oh, yeah. So, about how many electric guitars have you made now?

Steve: I'd probably say around 12 at this point.

Lisa: Are they hard to make?

Steve: yeah, they are.

Lisa: Yeah.

Steve: they're pretty hard to make.

There's a lot of parts go into them, eh?

A lot of sanding.

A lot of sanding.

Lisa: Oh, yeah. Every, electric guitar I've seen, they're like really shiny- like [00:04:00] fiberglassy or something. Yeah. Is that, you, do you do that kind of stuff?

Steve: Yeah, I do the painting as well.

Lisa: And painting? Oh, okay.

Steve: Yeah, that's like a glass clear coat.

Buff it out and then it's like super shiny.

Lisa: Oh, wow. And so you make them yourself. So the, I know they all have a name on the end of them, right? What do you put on yours?

Steve: I put Vexed on my headstocks.

Lisa: Vexed. Oh, okay. Yeah. Headstocks, that's what they're called.

Steve: Yeah. And I, will engrave them and then fill them with epoxy so it's like a part of the guitar and it won't ever come off of it.

Lisa: Is that a signature of yours?

Steve: I haven't seen anybody else really doing it. Mostly 'cause it's a lot more work than, like a slide decal.

Lisa: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Steve: Those ones you just put on and it's yeah, that's it.

But for me I have to use a Dremel and then do it by hand.

Lisa: Oh, yeah.

So with your guitars, I guess like people will find you and they, and if they want a guitar they'll ask you to make them one, right?

Steve: Yeah,

Lisa: it- Is that how it works?

Steve: Yeah, [00:05:00] it's like a collaboration. So I, they'll contact me or we'll just start a conversation about a build and just figure out what they're looking for in a guitar.

I've built guitars for people who are doing like hardcore music. And it's, those-

What's hardcore music? Ha-

hardcore is How do I explain it? It's like metal punk rock sort of thing.

Oh, yeah.

It's like-

Where they're really hard on their instruments.

Yeah, exactly. Oh, okay. It ha- the instruments have to withstand a lot.

They're really playing it.

The shows are insane.

Yeah.

Yeah, I've helped out with a few shows with, Reality Denied, and that was a lot of fun. I got to really see what the instruments go through. And I got to see my guitar played in front of people for the first time.

Oh, wow.

So that was, like, quite a rush.

Yeah, that must've been exciting.

Yeah.

So with the guitars they'll call you up and they'll say, "Okay, we'll collaborate on this build."

And so will you do basically, what if they want their name on it, can you do that?

I can do that. Oh. you mean, on the fretboard- Yeah

where [00:06:00] it, spells their name, like Stevie Ray Vaughan?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, wow.

I'm gonna start getting into that, in the new year.

And what's your signature? I know you put Vexed on it, but is there anything else that you would put on your guitar that would say, "Steve made this guitar"?

You're talking about, things that are specific, to my guitars?

Yeah, like maybe you wouldn't see them with your eye, you just put something unique on your guitar-

Oh ... that you made. for one thing, the necks on the guitars, I gen- generally don't finish with, a clear paint or anything, like a nitrocellulose paint.

I'll just use oil, and it feels imagine like a cutting board, but like a really nice one. It, feels that, but for the whole neck, so your hand doesn't stick to it at all when it gets sweaty. Which, that's what people are looking for when they're playing live. Another thing I have done is I have, for the fret dots the dots on [00:07:00] the fretboard that will show you, like, where you are on the fretboard- I have done wampum shell for that, which I have never seen anyone do that before.

Oh, wow. I don't think I've ever seen that either.

Yeah, I've

done- That's a creative design.

Yeah, it's like the... Yeah, I got a hold of some shells what was it? About a year ago, year and a half ago, like when I first started, and then I was like, "I wonder if I could put this in the guitar," and then I found out how, and I was like, "Oh, easy."

And no one's ever done that before, at least not to my knowledge.

Oh, wow. Oh yeah, those are, that's really nice. I'm looking at a picture of it now. Yeah, that's really cool. So I, and I'm sure, your imagination is your, is the limit. if you can imagine it, you can probably build it, right?

Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Wow. And so what about the shapes of the guitar? Are they all different kind of shapes, like the body of them?

Yeah. I have g- generally I've done guitars that are [00:08:00] based on other guitars, so I, change it up a little bit, or I'll make it, way bigger than it should be. Yeah, it's like whatever you can imagine I can build pretty much. Yeah. There's gonna be some limitations, but, we can figure something out.

Yeah. I remember, one, musician. He's from the West Coast, I believe, George Leach, and he used to ha- play this guitar that was covered in leather. Ooh.

Have you ever seen that?

Interesting. No, I haven't seen that.

Oh, okay. Yeah. I remember, his guitar was covered in leather.

buckskin. Yeah.

That, that must have smelled nice.

Yeah, Felt, felt good to play.

So I guess you can really put anything on a guitar, right?

Yeah, pretty much.

You can dress it up however you want.

Yeah. And another thing I've done that I haven't really seen done before, it's been done before, but not ... I, do this thing called mystery finish, where I will put a full finish on a guitar, and then I'll put a thin layer of black over top so that [00:09:00] way you have to, wear through the black paint in order for the true color to show through.

Oh, wow. And that has been done by somebody, Has

it? I've seen it done where they will wear it away before they even sell it. So it, they call that, what is it? Road worn.

Oh, yeah.

yeah, I've seen that done before where they, do it intentionally, but I've never seen it where it's like that i- the incentive to play is to, see the color underneath.

Wow, what about lights in guitars? Anything like that going on?

I've seen that done before. It's not really something I wanna do, but-

yeah.

Oh, yeah? I guess it, you're just, limited by your imagination when you're building guitars, Huh? Yeah,

pretty much.

And w- can you imagine how many guitars th- have been built and that are out there in the world?

Like- There's a lot. Yeah ... a lot, eh? And some are, like, more famous than others. what's a famous guitar that people would say, "Oh, yeah, that's a famous [00:10:00] guitar"? I don't know anything about guitars,

Probably, a Jimi Hendrix guitar.

Oh, a Jimi Hendrix guitar? A

left-handed, left-handed Stratocaster.

But w- but, a right-handed guitar played left-handed way.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, that's that's a famous guitar.

Oh, yeah.

Van Halen's guitar.

That's another one.

with the red, black, white paint job.

Oh, yeah

I'm trying to think what else there is

Jeff Beck, he has a Telecaster that's pretty famous.

Oh, yeah.

Bunch of Eric Cla- yeah, there's a bunch of people that have famous guitars, yeah.

And with, some people, collect guitars, too. Yeah.

Yeah and are collectors. Do you know of any collectors that- Eh- ... that have a lot of guitars?

I know people who have a lot of guitars that play them, but not, like

When I think of collector, it's, somebody who just, buys them to keep them and that's about it. I ima- I don't imagine they would play it very much. But, the people I know, they all play their instruments a lot. [00:11:00]

Oh, yeah. So now you're making, electric guitars. Are you making any other kinds of instruments?

I'm making electric basses as well. I went to, Mohawk College for bass. that was my major. And, that's where I met a bunch of my musician friends, too. I have played a bass, like some hard bass stuff for a while.

Oh, yeah.

And, so I kinda know, what I want out of a bass, yeah, my, one of my buddies, he's gonna be using one of my basses I built for his band's next album or EP. I can't remember what they're doing next.

So there you are on Fifth Line at Six Nations - Yeah ... and you're making these guitars. Who would've known it?

Yeah, just in some basement. Yeah.

But you're gonna be expanding probably as you get your business going more and- Yeah

and get out there more. Yep. And so you are on the social media.

Yeah. I'm not the best at posting, but I am on there. [00:12:00]

Oh, do you post, you, of yourself actually making the guitar or- I

have done that. I'm a little camera shy, so I will, just show my hands for the most part.

Oh, yeah.

But yeah, I have, pictures of my builds and, you can probably see me, carving out the headstock names on there.

Oh, yeah, for sure. And where can we find you on Instagram? What do they look up?

they look up, Vexed Harshface.

V-X-E-D.

V-E-X-E-D.

Harshface.

Yep.

H-A-R-S-H-F-A-C-E.

Yes.

On the Instagram. Yeah. Okay.

And my name on there will be, Steve Haven. That's, what I go by.

Oh, okay. Steve Haven. Yeah. Okay. Oh, okay, great. So you not only

And do you do this full time, you make your guitars, your instruments? maybe,

like, 40 hours a week.

Oh.

Yeah. Yeah, I, I- That's

what it [00:13:00] takes, to make the guitar?

I can easily put in, 12-hour days. So it just- depends on how much energy I have and, the time I have. like, when I'm not doing my other jobs, I'll go build guitars.

So when you're making a guitar for someone, maybe you're making it for someone you know. somewhat specific, or maybe you're just making it, right?

Yeah.

When you're making a guitar, is that is that a job to you or are, is it just like really enjoyable?

it's really enjoyable. Yeah. I'm trying to think of certain parts that would feel like jobs. Maybe some of the sanding, but at this point I, know what the finished pro- thing is gonna look like, so I'm like, "Okay, I just have to get there." And then it... I don't even realize I'm doing the work.

I'm imagining it, and then I'll just do it, and I'm like, "Okay, next step. Next step."

Oh, yeah. So who did you learn how to make guitars from?

I taught myself.

Wow.

I just did a ton of research. luckily there's a lot of, documentation [00:14:00] on guitars and guitar building, so there's a lot of information out there.

Yeah. And plus, you're a musician, so you know what you want in a guitar.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I've, held them and looked at them long enough, I know, what part does what and why they're shaped certain ways.

Yeah. And then when it's finished and it comes out and you play it, you're the first one to play it, The-

It's a really good feeling ... the guitar is like... Yeah. Yeah. It's not A lot of the times I will not even fully finish. I will, get it to the point where I can put strings on it, and I'm like, "All right, let's go play it right now."

And so do you document each one? are they numbered like art or are...

Do you number guitars or do you just like-

I haven't numbered them. I've thought about that and I have, some... I'm trying to think of what it's called. It's, a, it's like a die, l- letter dies that you will, use a hammer and it'll punch in a letter or a number. I'm trying to use that for, ser- serial numbers, but I also haven't [00:15:00] developed serial numbers yet, so- Oh,

yeah

a system for it.

Oh, yeah. so when you're finished, do you document it with photography?

Yeah, that's- Yeah ... I take pictures, along the way all the time. Oh. And yeah. Sometimes I forget. Sometimes I'm just, too deep into it and I'm like- "All right, time to go to bed." I forget to take a picture.

Oh, yeah. Oh my gosh. So what kind of music do you listen to when you're making guitars, or do you listen to music?

I do listen to music. I listen to a lot of, different... It's not r- really one genre, but what I've been into lately is, desert rock. And what's that? It's like Queens of the Stone Age type of stuff.

Oh, I don't even know what that means.

Yeah. that's the name of a band. It's, a bunch of bands that were l- from the desert area in the US and they developed this rock music and yeah, it just- Oh ... it keeps building and building. It's, it's- Oh, I

see.

Yeah, that and, stoner rock and [00:16:00] s- sludge and doom and stuff like that.

Those are the genres where, you write a riff so good you want to play it for 10 minutes.

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, so that's like the kind of music I like listening to and writing.

Oh, okay. Nothing like '70s rock. Is it familiar to- It's,

it's a little bit like that, yeah.

Oh, okay.

Yep. So if you think of, '70s rock, it's, kinda like that.

Because I think the '70s had the best music ever.

Yeah, they had a lot of really good music.

Yeah, a lot of good music was made and created in the '70s.

Is that, Motown era, too?

Yeah, that was, like, the '60s.

Yeah.

The Motown era. Yeah, if your song, I think, can last, 50, 60 years- Yeah

since, the... It must be a great song. Yeah. So are you a songwriter yourself?

yeah, I write a lot of songs. Yeah?

Yeah.

I, am working on, an album right now.

Oh, wow.

Yeah. Y- you write a bunch of songs, and a lot of them aren't good, so you're like, "Okay, [00:17:00] let's leave those ones behind and work on these ones."

So k- kinda at that stage right now.

And when you make your album, I guess you'll be playing one of your own guitars, of course, right?

Definitely. Every guitar and bass on that will be mine.

Oh, yeah. So growing up, w- how old were you when you first picked up a guitar?

I was, a guitar of my own was, like, 12 or 13.

But I can't remember what age, but growing up I'd be at my grandma's place, and she would have, this old acoustic guitar that wasn't very playable. But, it was just cool to look at, and then, I would just hit the strings and let them ring open. And I was like, "Oh, that's so cool.

Can't wait to, play that one day." And then I'd seen somebody play it, like they picked it up and started playing it, and I was like, "Oh, cool, I wanna do that." But I was still, younger than 10. And then yeah, 12 or 13 I really wanted it.

I was really into Jimi Hendrix at the time, and, I also l- started listening to new, music that I just [00:18:00] found, like Rage Against the Machine and Billy Talent.

And I just really liked those guitar parts, so I was like, "This is... I think I'm gonna do this."

Yeah, so when you were, Did you take lessons or did you self-taught, or did you j- do you have a ear f- you must have an ear for it.

I've developed an ear. maybe I did have an ear early on, but, I took lessons.

Caledonia Music, back when it was beside the old Dairy Queen. Finish a lesson, go get some ice cream.

So when you take lessons, do you learn to read music?

You don't have to. No? there's different types of, music you can read, like for guitar. There, like sheet music is for, like any instrument, and, but for guitar you can have tablature or tabs, and those are, those will have the strings laid out and the numbers of the, like the nu- fret number that you press and play.

so it'll just lay it out with numbers. So it's a lot easier to [00:19:00] play for the person who doesn't know how to read music.

Oh, yeah. '

Cause, numbers is easier than a dot, and you're trying to figure out what a dot means.

I don't think learning how to actually play the guitar will ever go out of style, right?

I don't think so.

Even with- It's been around for a

while ...

even with those kind of... I've seen those kind of, guitars where it's only a neck. Have you ever seen those? It's only a neck- and it's like electric and, maybe it even plays itself- ... or something like that.

I haven't seen something quite like that, but-

that sounds pretty cool.

Yeah.

Try and build one of those.

And with the instruments now, you, can get an instrument where you can get a guitar sound off of an, of a I don't know. Like it's not even a guitar. But you can get a guitar sound.

a, like out of a keyboard or something?

Yeah. Yeah. Out of that. But I don't think it'll It, people will still want to learn how to play the actual guitar. I

think so.

Yeah.

Yeah, there's just something so I don't know. It's, so satisfying just like holding it and playing it, and then I don't... [00:20:00] Yeah. I don't think that'll ever go out of style.

What about, I know you s- you say you, make bass guitars, but what about the actual basses, like those ones that stand up? Oh, those- Would you ever try to make one of those? ...

those upright basses? Yeah. I wanna try repairing them first before building them.

just to figure out the dimensions and like what parts are important and which parts aren't thing.

What parts break a lot.

once when I do some research I'll-

probably get into that.

now that you've, brought that up, what parts do break a lot on electric guitars?

On guitars? Strings break a lot.

Oh,

yeah. but like part of the guitar some of the electronics can get messed up.

So there's the output jack. Because when you're put- putting in a jack, pulling it out constantly, like every time you plug in to play, that creates a lot of stress on it, and it can move around and, the threads can loosen on the, s- the screw part.

And then it can just come apart.

Oh, yeah. So that part breaks a lot. Yeah, [00:21:00] potentiometers are the... Those are the control knobs.

Oh, yeah.

those ones get scratchy and dusty a lot. So I always have a can of cleaner on hand, so that way I can always have them- clean and not as scratchy.

So people should keep their guitars in cases.

Yeah, Ca- cases are always nice. Yeah. Especially a hard case.

Yeah, so are you getting well, more well-known for guitar repair as well?

It's becoming that way, yeah. I just fixed up a couple of guitars that were like... There, there was a lot of work that had to be done to one of them in part- particular, and I wouldn't have been able to pull it off like even probably six months ago.

So like I can really tell like how far I've come. And yeah, repairs are... They're... it's like a puzzle. You have to try and figure it out. It's "Okay, I can get away with doing this," and then, "Oh, this will work."

Oh, yeah.

And other times I'm like, I'm really confident in fixing a part or replacing it.

"All right, I'm gonna replace that part. It's gonna be even better."

So can guitars, when you buy one, can it last a lifetime- Oh, yeah ... if you look after your guitar?

Yeah, [00:22:00] easily.

Oh, yeah. And do they all sound different?

Yeah. Yep. They all sound different. so if it's acoustic, the wood matters.

Yeah. And, for electric guitars, the electronics matter.

Yeah.

The wood matters a little bit, but not as much as like acoustics. So yeah, they can all sound very different.

And what about where do you get your, where do you get your like, knowledge, like when you want more knowledge? Do you go to workshops or...

what's out there for people that want to gain more knowledge of what you do?

like learning how to- Like in- ... build on their own-

Yeah ... sort

of

thing? No, like increasing your knowledge of building guitars. Yeah. So yeah, you wanna learn some more. Where would you go?

G- Google is, my first place I would go, to find out, a general question.

but, there's lots of videos on YouTube that do that.

I was lucky enough that my favorite guitar builder, a luthier, he probably wouldn't like that I called him that. But he, [00:23:00] he posts videos of him building and, answering questions of any of his viewers. So I was able to figure out, some insider knowledge pretty early on, what to do in certain situations or, what operations to do that are easier th- than others.

Learning from other guitar builders.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And where- I don't know any in person, but, online I'll look... I'll search them out.

Oh, yeah. And is there any place you can go to actually meet up with guitar builders and talk?

Oh, probably. Yeah. I think NAMM. Yeah, so NAMM stands for, the National Association of Music Merchants, and it's a global non-profit trade organization that supports the music products, industry by bringing together manufacturers.

So yeah, you- you'll see, a bunch of different, people selling their... or, showcasing their gear that they have for that year. Bunch of different companies, like amp companies, guitar companies. I would imagine I could do something like that. But, no, I just haven't looked into it since I started building.

Okay. When you're [00:24:00] building a guitar, do you like to, start it and just go right straight through till you get it done? Or, or are you building different guitars at different times? at the same time,

I have done, different guitars at different times, but I really enjoy having, a few going in a batch at least.

right now I have two going, but, generally I like doing four. Just 'cause that's, the maximum my space can hold.

So if I called you up and wanted t- you to build me a guitar how long would you tell me I had to wait?

the wait time is around three months.

Three months? Yeah. Oh, okay.

Fairly quick for, a custom build.

And I could say, "I wanna collaborate with you-

Yeah ...

on it, and we'll work together on this."

Yeah, we could figure something out.

Okay. We could do that, and then I'd have to learn how to play it after it was built. Yeah.

I used to give lessons, so I could do that too.

Oh, wow. One-stop shop with guitars- Yeah ... that we can do with you, Steve. [00:25:00] Okay. And also you're, into... You do tattoos. Let's talk about that for a bit.

Yeah. I learned how to tattoo from Steve Hill- from Ashwaubenon. he, his tattoo name is 16 Aces. that's his shop name.

Oh, yeah.

He used to have a shop, at the Log Cabin on Highway 54, but, we have since moved to... he's moved to a private studio, and I've done the same thing. I just moved to, a guest bedroom. Like a, just a, a setup that I could always have.

But yeah, my goal is to have a private studio as well, just like him.

So how long have you been tattooing?

I started tattooing end of 2019, beginning of 2020. So yeah, the beginning of my apprenticeship I didn't get to do a lot of tattoos 'cause- the pandemic happened.

I remember it was like, I think March 13th, I was doing, What'd I say? I think I know the exact day.

it was on March 13th, I was doing a tattoo, and then it was like we all turned around and we're like, "Oh, is [00:26:00] that the news?" Like- ... hearing on the radio. Oh. We're like, "I guess we're shutting down." Wow. So yeah, so, that, summer I didn't really tattoo a lot, but, kept up with it, worked out of a shop in Hamilton for I think it was, like, six months.

And then went back with Steve, and then that's when I, kinda n- found what I liked for, a tattoo shop, which is not in the city. I, I- Yeah ... I like having, fresh air.

Oh, yeah?

When I step out of the studio.

So d- tattoo artists, they have their style, Everybody has a style.

Yeah. What would... How would you describe your style as a tattoo

artist? it's based on American traditional. but I have, my own weird illustrative twist on it.

Yeah.

So I... what I like about my drawings is that, I can tell I drew them, and, other people can as well. So it's like it has a certain look I don't really know how to describe.

Yeah. But yeah, it's- I don't know. I think of it as, mischievous a little bit.

Oh,

yeah? Like, I put a lot of [00:27:00] jokes in my drawings.

Like puns and stuff.

Oh, yeah? bo- both of the things that you do, making guitars and tattooing, very creative-

work. And have you always been a creative person?

I like to think so.

Yeah?

Yeah. I, I remember drawing a lot growing up, and, drawing and reading, I did a lot of that growing up. Like, when I think of my childhood, that's what I think of is that. And yeah, I can't remember a time I didn't draw.

That's, the thing I've been doing the longest, Yeah.

So how many tattoos would you have yourself, on, on yourself?

I have no idea.

Oh. A lot?

I, yeah a lot.

You like to get tattoos and you like to give tattoos.

Yeah. These days I like giving more than giving- or getting.

But- Yeah, you like to give people tattoos.

Yeah. Say

it again.

I, I like to give tattoos more than get them these days.

Oh, yeah? Yeah. Yeah. [00:28:00] It hurts a lot.

Does it? I don't have tattoos, so I always thought, "Does it hurt?" I've heard people say, "Yeah, tattoos, it hurts getting a tattoo."

But

it depends on- lucky for you, I

brought my tattoo machine today.

Yeah. But it depends on where you get your tattoo, right? Yeah.

Yeah.

That has a lot to do with it.

if you're on your foot, it could really hurt. Ooh,

yeah, that, that sounds pretty painful, yeah.

Yeah.

But, your arm, like your bicep or your forearm, those are pretty ea- not easy, but, doable places.

Yeah.

you're able to, look away and- Yeah ... kinda ignore the pain.

Yeah.

Where oth- other places you can't escape it. You're just like, "Yep, I'm here."

So how long would an average tattoo that somebody would get how long would that take to get? Just an average one.

You mean, a palm-sized tattoo?

Yeah, say they wanna, Like- yeah ...

like something that size?

Yeah, something like the size of your palm.

that depends on the tattooer as well and, the style. But, for, American traditional, something [00:29:00] like that would take- I don't know, an hour maybe

Oh,

okay ... like, an hour, two hours, depending on how intricate. And then it can go up to, I don't know, like 10 hours- 15 hours, depending on, what style.

Now, what kind of tattoos are people getting these days? Are they getting, colorful ones, or just the, ones that have shading?

I see a lot of, black work tattoo- Yeah ... which is, it just uses black ink.

Yeah.

Yeah, I've seen- Is

that traditional?

It can be.

Yeah. It's just more like a color palette I guess. So yeah, I've seen it done in, some different styles, but mostly, American traditional. It looks really nice.

And if someone got a color tattoo, how long would the colors last vibrant? Like- before they'd have to get it redone I guess?

That depends on, the ink and the application, like, how, like the tattooer that put it in, how well they did it.

Yeah.

And the skin area and, like, how much it sees the sun.

Yeah. Oh, a lot

of

things depend on

it ... yeah, there's a lot of factors that [00:30:00] go into it. But some people have them looking super vibrant their whole life.

Other people, they can have it looking like nothing, like it looks like it fell out after a year.

So I thought all tattoos used the same ink. No, y- there's different makes of of ink that people get?

Yeah, there's Different brands- ... and stuff ... that's what- yeah ... what I meant

there's different brands. some of them are like powder pigment, which are thicker particles, which don't, the body can't break down as easy. So those ones tend to stay vibrant a long time.

Whereas the smaller, trying to think what it's called, pre-dispersed I guess inks, which is like the majority of them, they're a little thinner, and the p- the particles are smaller, so the body can, carry them away a little easier.

Oh, yeah. so you're still tattooing to this day.

Yeah.

Yeah, you like doing that. And how is it? do you do custom work or people just... Will people say, "Oh, I just want an an [00:31:00] animal, maybe a wolf. You just draw whatever you do with a wolf"?

Yeah I've done all that. I like having people want something particular I don't know, a Motörhead logo. Yeah. those are a lot of fun to do 'cause it's... I look at it as, different aspects. those ones I don't have to draw. I just have to focus on executing it very well. Other ones, it's, like guitar is the collaboration between the- the artist and the client. that's a lot of fun. it, it can be.

Yeah.

and there's, flat ta- tattoo flash- which is pre-drawn designs from different artists. So a lot of people use their own flash, but you can also buy flash from other artists and have it on the wall. Someone can look at it and say, "I want that."

And you'll say, "Okay, where do you want it?"

Yeah, I like doing that.

So w- let's talk about ethics, with tattooing. I think tattoo artists have ethics, right? For sure. And when... Can you, [00:32:00] tell us a little bit about the protocols and ethics of tattooing?

Eh.

Say somebody wanted a tattoo on their forehead, for instance.

I would tell them to think about it.

Yeah.

I'd tell them wait a year. Come back. but they'd probably go to somebody else- who can do it cheaper and right now-

and worse.

But, I would look at, like, how many tattoos they have, where they are in their life.

If they're, if they have their own business sort of thing, you can do whatever you want, but if you're, like, working at McDonald's or something, it's that probably won't be the best look, like- in, in your boss's eyes.

So you talk about these things with people before-

Yeah ...

you tattoo them.

Yeah, I don't just say, "Here, give me your money. Let me put it on." I want it to, be right.

I want it to be right for the right person.

Yeah. So you kinda get to know them before you tattoo them a little bit. Have a conversation. [00:33:00] And what about if people are under the influence of something and you're thinking that they are?

that's, a big no. Yeah, I won't tattoo someone if they're, like, under the influence. If they're, like... If we're talking about an idea, that's one thing, but, actually doing it, it's like I want you to, be present. I want you to be inside your body.

Yeah. so it's good that tattoo artists do have these e- ethics and protocols.

Yeah.

And that the industry is regulated, I guess you could say. Somewhat. Yeah. But there are a lot of tattoo shops around.

There's a lot.

Yeah. Yeah. How do people distinguish themselves? Y- is it hard to do, to distinguish yourself?

It's pretty hard to do. These days a lot of people are relying on, social media which, they can do whatever they want, but that's not something I'm very into.

I don't mind looking ri- ridiculous, but, doing it just to bring people in, I don't know. That doesn't sit right with me. Now, when I think about [00:34:00] tattooing I think about different people who are famous. Such as, Oh, what is his name? MGK. Now he's- Oh, yeah ... gotten rid of his tattoos and gotten black all on his skin.

Yeah.

I've never seen that before. What is that called?

that's called blackout- Yeah ... tattoos. Yeah. It's, I've seen it a lot more in the past, I don't know, let's say 10 years, but five years at least is where I've seen the trend go up. Yeah, people do that to cover their sleeves. Even if they don't have, a sleeve that they wanna get rid of or tattoos they wanna get rid of or cover, they will just do a black anyway, just 'cause they like the look.

I've built machines for people to do blackout before, and those have to hit hard.

Real punchy.

Yeah, and then other people have gotten their tattoos removed-

Yeah ...

from la- from lasers, I, did that for

a little bit on my elbow. It, sucks.

Oh, yeah? Does it actually work?

Does it remove the tattoo?

it's very slow, it's [00:35:00] very painful, and it-

More painful than getting the tattoo?

Way more painful. Oh, yeah? it's unbelievably more painful, but the good thing is it only lasts for a little bit. tattoos, it's hours, but for laser, depending on the size of it it'll...

mine were, like, five minutes maybe.

But those were, like, a really hard five minutes.

So you really should, be very sure of what you're getting if you're getting a tattoo- Yeah ... and that you really want it.

Yeah, highly recommend that.

Yeah. And that's probably why I don't have one yet.

There you go.

Never too late.

Yeah, never too late, So with your with your tattooing and with your guitar making, y- you don't wanna f- you don't wanna focus on one, you d- wanna do them both, right?

Yeah, I, really enjoy both of them, an equal amount.

Oh, yeah? Yeah. That's great. Yeah. Using your creativity like that.

Yeah. I'm trying to get people to get their guitars repaired or custom [00:36:00] built, and I'll include a tattoo with it.

that's unique.

Yeah.

Or maybe you'll tattoo a guitar on their arm or something.

I could do that.

Oh my gosh. Okay. So where do you see your business, since your business is relatively new- where do you see it growing, and what do you see it becoming in the, years to come?

I can see doing repairs a lot more. I'm getting quicker and better at them, so that would be like do- su- like easily doable. I also would like to build guitars, c- custom builds. That would be like w- that's like the thing I would enjoy most abou- about guitars is like the custom build, spending those 12-hour days work- just working at it.

Not even realizing it's 12 hours. Yeah.

And is there something you have in your imagination somewhere floating around that could be a one-of-a-kind guitar, or are they all one-of-a-kind guitars? They're a little bit one-of-a-kind.

I'm doing my first [00:37:00] copy of a previous build.

But Yeah, I'm trying to think of a unique guitar

So with that five-foot guitar, Steve, like how has that added to your repertoire of guitar building, doing something like that?

it's really eye-catching for anybody looking at guitars. But I, yeah, I've learned a lot on like where to put the wiring, like cavities and channels and stuff. Like that one, that five-foot guitar, I had to do wiring that I haven't seen in a guitar before, which is like I had to put it through like underneath something.

And, had to extend... I don't know. It was like a weird build.

So did you think to yourself, "If I can build that, I can build anything"?

Yeah, when I went back to a regular guitar it was like way easier. Yeah. 'Cause one was like just holding it, the- Oh, yeah ... long guitar, I was like always bumping stuff over.

I would turn around with it on and I would knock everything off my desk.

So guitars are usually like a certain length, right?

[00:38:00] Yeah.

Yeah. And probably you could build miniatures too, right?

probably, yeah. Yeah. Like travel guitars.

Yeah, travel guitars. I guess like you could probably sit there and think of anything and then, make it come to life.

Yeah.

Yeah. That's a really neat way of spending your day.

it's, yeah, it's a lot of fun.

Yeah.

Spent a lot of days doing that.

And so do you, are you reading guitar magazines and tattoo magazines and those kind of things?

I've kinda gotten past r- like reading the magazines to pick up information, but if there's like something like somebody I'm interested in, I'll read about them.

... Yeah.

Is there any guitar in the world that you'd like to play that exists?

Ooh. The first one that comes to mind is, Kurt Cobain's, unplugged g- guitar. I think that sold for millions- Oh, yeah ... a few years ago. Oh, yeah. that'd be really cool to play.

Wow.

Just just an old acoustic.

Yeah, because guitars like [00:39:00] they hold stories, don't they?

They do.

Yeah. And it's really interesting that they have their own unique sound.

I can't wait to hear one of these Vexed guitars- Yeah ... being played on a television show or something, seeing it played by somebody that has a a real platform.

Yeah. One day.

Yeah, one day

for

sure. we'll get there. One day for sure. So is there anything else that we haven't talked about that we need to talk about? Or have we touched on it all?

Yeah, I can't think of anything else.

Okay. we've been s- talking on this episode of Yo Ha De Nee Gasa, the Road to Your Name podcast, with Steve Johnson about his business of building guitars, fact

With his business about building guitars at Vexed Instruments, and also tattooing. Yeah. So if you want a tattoo of a guitar, go and see Steve.

Knock it out of the park.

Yeah, he will. [00:40:00] Okay. nya:weh for being on this episode, Steve, and Onakiwa:hi. Okay.

Good?

Yep.

Okay.

Extro:
Nya:weh. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Yoha:te ne kahsen:na: The Road to Your Name podcast, which has been produced by Aboriginal Legal Services and hosted by me, Lisa VanEvery. There are 10 podcast episodes in each season. Let's meet again on the next episode. If you would like to learn more about our organization, Aboriginal Legal Services, and the programs and services we provide, please visit us at our website, www.aboriginallegal.ca

And if you feel inclined and would like to make a donation, you can click on the word [00:41:00] Donate located at the top of the homepage of our website. You can also visit us on Facebook at Road to Your Name. This has been the Yoha:te ne kahsen:na: The Road to Your Name Podcast.